Buddy T (00:01.848)
Welcome to Beyond the Map. And today we're talking about a series of cases that span different people, different locations and different years, but they all share one thing in common. A pattern, the same pattern appearing on human skin after some sort of experience that the witness can't fully explain. These aren't scratches or random bruises. They aren't the kind of marks you get from sleeping on your phone or a folded blanket. They raise questions far larger than the marks themselves.
So welcome back to Beyond the Map. I'm Buddy Tidwell and tonight we're stepping into a part of the experiencer phenomenon that few people ever talk about in public because in this world of high strangers, physical evidence is rare. But when it does show up, it changes everything. To help us explore this, we've joined by someone on the front lines. John Street is the Assistant State Director of MUFON in Indiana and a veteran field investigator. And he's a member of MUFON's Experiencer Resource Team.
the people who answer the phones when someone calls and says, something happened to me and I don't know who else to talk to about it. John's worked these cases, he's documented them, and he's seen patterns almost identical to the images that we'll be taking a look at and discussing today. Tonight, we're gonna walk through what these markings looks like, how common they are, and how MUFON investigates them, and most importantly, what experiencers go through emotionally when their bodies become the evidence.
John, welcome to the show.
John Street (01:33.89)
Glad to be here. It's nice.
Buddy T (01:35.78)
John, think you've seen a side of the phenomenon that most people never hear about. What originally drew you into the experiencer type investigations and to move on? Was there a moment where you realized that this is the work that I'm meant to be doing?
John Street (01:51.756)
Yeah, after investigating the UFO phenomenon for several years, I realized that MUFON had a team that goes one step beyond and then investigate that people actually have experiences with aliens, or that's how they think. And there are so many cases out there that I've heard of so many cases and so many cases reported that there has to be something going on. They all can't be liars and they all can't be mistaken.
Some of them's got, know, something's got to be going on out there because there's literally hundreds of them reported a year now just in the US alone.
Buddy T (02:29.816)
What year did you start this venture with MUFON, John?
John Street (02:34.294)
I started to move on to field investing a little over five years ago, and I've been on the ERT, which is experience and resource team, probably going on three years now.
Buddy T (02:44.196)
So what are your current responsibilities in the MoveOn organization as the assistant director?
John Street (02:51.598)
Right now, well, I do just a little bit of everything. I usually try to get our meetings together. I manage all the meetings we have in the state and try to get various guests to come and talk at our meetings. And it's not an invitation to the public to try to get the public involved in it. And so we can get, you know, answer questions for the public also. And also as a field investigator level three, I do field investigations for the UFO sightings.
which being a level three, I'm certified to investigate anywhere from just the siting down to cattle mutilations down to actual landing sites. And as an ERT member, we do strictly deal with the abduction part that people supposed to in contact with aliens.
Buddy T (03:38.18)
So just to get a sense of the volume of work that you see in a year, about how many cases or calls do you get and either sign out or take yourself?
John Street (03:47.47)
In our state alone in Indiana, we average probably, I'm going to say eight cases a month. we have most of time that we usually have like four investigators. So I probably do probably two a month myself. Just, you know, that's just the flying saucer part, the so-called flying saucer, the UFO part. And as for ERT,
Nationwide, have really counted how many we get by no just around me in Indiana, Ohio, Tennessee, I probably get three or four ERT cases a month. And there are several ERT investigators in the country that handled off most of other states. I think there's like 60 ERT members that do actually investigate the ERT part.
Buddy T (04:34.746)
So it's easy to do the math. If you get on an average eight cases a month in a state as populated or as sparsely populated as some parts of Indiana are, it's simple math to tell you that there's 100 US cases a month, approximately, at least. I'll move on wide.
John Street (04:52.01)
definitely. yeah, definitely. Yes, there is. Because he gets states like California. We're talking 20 or 30 cases a month. It's states like California.
Buddy T (05:03.034)
you know the numbers are staggered dc that they're elevating or they stay about the same or what what could you say over your five years of looking at that
John Street (05:11.156)
I'd say on the average, the studying part has stayed probably pretty much on the average. But as for the ERT, the experiencer part of it, to me, since I've been doing it almost three years, it's gone up quite a bit. I don't know what's caused it or what, it's like, for me, I think it's probably doubled.
Buddy T (05:25.732)
So.
Buddy T (05:31.834)
So it's either a lot more people are willing to share their experience or there actually is an increase in experiences, content. Well, let's try to pull back the curtain a little bit on a move-on process when you get a phone call. What's that like? Can you kind of walk me through a typical phone call that you might receive?
John Street (05:37.678)
Yeah, exactly.
John Street (05:52.866)
Well, normally we get emails. We'll get email from whoever reports it to the National Mufon's headquarters, which is in Cincinnati, Ohio. They'll give the case to the state where it happened in, which, you know, that's for the siting part of it. Like if we get that siting in that siting happened in Indiana, they will sign it to Indiana and the state director or chief investigator or myself will give it to a field investigator.
one who's not currently have a case or sometimes we'll have one field regressor be doing two or three cases at a time. It gets really busy. As for the ERT, there's not an investigator in every state for the ERT. So each member of the ERT is given just random cases and usually by cases, our director gives me the cases that are pretty close to me in Indiana, Ohio and Tennessee. have most of them.
And from there, the investigator takes over once he gets that assignment from the chief investigator, state director, and what he'll do, he has a certain amount of time to contact the witness, which is depends on the category of the cases, category one, category two, category three. And category one is the one with the least like it's.
Not a whole lot of evidence in the society. The vehicle happened like more than a mile away in a big category one. You have like 72 hours to contact the witness category two is a little closer. You know, it's a little more, you know, a little more evidence and you got 48 hours to contact and category three is the holy grail more or less where you know, it's the vehicle is more or less within 100 feet of the witness. And then we have 24 hours to contact the witness, which is usually done by email or text at first.
Buddy T (07:36.09)
Yeah. As, as I've become more more familiar with MUFON, it seems like there are a special set of protocols for those of you on the ERT side of things. Can you talk a little bit about how the ERT protects the privacy of the experiencer?
John Street (07:56.364)
Yeah, the first thing we do when we get an ERT case is we'll go over the case and then we'll also try to contact the witness usually by email or text. And we just sent what's called a first response letter, which explains our purpose and why what we're doing and what we're contacting, why they're contacting them and the reason we're contacting them because of their report and just basically go through the steps of what we're trying to do.
And usually we'll try to set up time to have an in-person phone call with that person. So we usually don't call them right off the start. We usually try to get an email or text to set up a good time for them to talk about it. Because I don't want to interrupt somebody with the right middle dinner or in a crowd of people and try to talk them about something as personal as this. And once we email back from the MRTex, request of the time, and we'll set a time and a date, and then we'll have an in-person phone call.
or we can actually go over things.
Buddy T (08:54.842)
You know, I'm sure when you get an ERT case like this and somebody's actually experienced contact of some sort, that there's just a whole range of feelings or, you know, shock to maybe even embarrassment, who knows. But can you talk about what an experiencer is usually feeling when you have your contact with them?
John Street (09:16.908)
Most of them are feeling just unsure that they just want answers. Now, a lot of them have a lot of fear. are a lot of people that scared to come out with it because of ridicule, of course. I, for one, would be afraid to say something like that in the public place because of the ridicule. People think you're crazy or you're making it up. It's hard to deal with. It's something that personal that you actually have contact with something that's maybe not of this world.
A lot of people are apprehensive at first, but once you talk to them and get them going, try to get them going in the right direction, they feel much better even just after a phone call about having finally told somebody where they've kept it inside so long. Cuz we might get cases that are several years old before they're even reported.
Buddy T (10:05.688)
Yeah, it was the same way in law enforcement. We would have people who would be victims, particularly of like sex crimes or they've been violated in some significant way. It might take years for them to get enough courage or, you know, built up to actually report that. I would assume this is same way.
John Street (10:24.95)
yeah, definitely. Yeah. And the thing about it is you wait too long, you know, any evidence that you might've had is gone. It's just, you can't find it you can't get it back once it's gone.
Buddy T (10:35.096)
Yeah, that evidence is fragile and perishing every second in most of these cases. so that sort of brings us to a place to talk about this physical mark case that you had. Could you tell me about that case and how that sort of manifested from the experiencer's point of view?
John Street (10:54.382)
Well, this was a I got the case. It was I think it was in January of 2024. I received the case and the field investigator Ohio had already finished the UFO part, which she really didn't report a UFO, but she had experiences from years earlier of seeing UFOs. But her main concern was waking up one day with a mark on her body. So I received the case and I sent her an email and she was more than willing to have me call her and talk to her about it, which I did.
And we talked probably 25, 30 minutes and it started off and she said started off having dreams. Vivid dreams which she couldn't remember. She knew she had dreams but she couldn't remember. And then she woke up one morning, took a shower, getting ready for work. Then she had a round circular mark on her shoulder. Probably a couple inches diameter. It's like concentric circles with lines going through them. Almost perfectly symmetric.
And she said it felt raised. It didn't hurt. It wasn't any pain, wasn't any blood, but it felt like it was raised. And that was very concerning for her because she said she got up and she checked the bed. Couldn't find anything in the bed lying around that she could have laid on or caused the mark. And she was just dumbfounded. She had no idea how that mark got there.
Buddy T (12:16.12)
Was there any memory or reference to any kind of contact in that immediate time frame or just those previous incidents where she'd seen UFOs?
John Street (12:25.614)
Well, she had the previous instance when she was 10 years old and one she says like 15 years old or earlier. the funny thing about it is she was living in the same area that she grew up in. she was within a couple of miles of the house she grew up in where she saw that UFO when she was 10 years old. But she did say she was watching TV one evening and looked down the hall and glanced down the hall and saw a bean, a small, spindly
gray looking being crossing from the kitchen to the living room crossing the hall. She couldn't see the face. She could just see the side view because it went by so fast. And she said it looked like your typical gray hair race piece with the long spindly arms, the big head and about size of a child, about four foot tall.
Buddy T (13:11.77)
And this instance of her seeing the being, was it close in time to her, the mark manifest in itself?
John Street (13:19.534)
Oh yeah, was within a month. I think it was like three weeks.
Buddy T (13:22.468)
So.
So kind of close.
John Street (13:26.55)
Yeah. Well, I figure if something is visitor, they could possibly visit her again. No problem.
Buddy T (13:28.932)
You know, the more and more.
Buddy T (13:36.484)
Yeah. The more that I look at these cases, it seems like people who encounter UFOs is not just a one and done that they're more propensity for them to have a lifetime of incidents or, you know, several incidents over the course of their life.
John Street (13:54.696)
Exactly, yes.
Buddy T (13:56.824)
So I don't know what that trigger is or how people are targeted for that, what the common thread is, but it does seem that way. Some people go their entire life and never experience anything. And then other people will have multiple instances throughout their life.
John Street (14:07.612)
yeah.
John Street (14:12.462)
Yeah, she did have two other instances within, I believe she got the mark in December, I think it was December of 2024. And I was in contact with her and like the week I contacted her first, I think I talked to her on January 6th of 2025. And she explained to me like a week earlier, she had those dreams again, she heard robotic voices. She woke up and she heard these voices, they're like robotic.
you know, like electronic voices. And she laid down and she had felt like something touched her bed and something long was inserted both her ears simultaneously. She said, you know, it could have been a long skinny finger. She didn't know, but something was inserted in her ears. And she woke up the next morning and she had two like burn marks on her, her eye, one in each eye. And she couldn't explain that.
And she assumed that something that wherever stuck in her ears caused them marks. And then two weeks after that, she gave me a text and she had another experience. Well, she woke up in the of the night and felt like something was pulling her legs apart in the middle of the night. Well, when she got up in the morning, she had bruises on her inner thighs, like something had grabbed her thighs and pulled them apart.
Buddy T (15:33.786)
It's really, really disturbing to keep having those incidents during the time that you're asleep. you know, it seems to be a fairly common theme in these cases that, you know, people are encountering these beings in the dark of their bedroom at night where they're just lying there and then all of sudden there's a being there, all of a sudden something's happening to them that they can't explain and they may not even be fully conscious or awake.
John Street (15:36.78)
Yes, it is.
John Street (16:02.286)
Yeah, it's a very scary feeling knowing you're in safety in your own home supposedly and something like that can get in your house when you're not knowing it. That's a very scary feeling.
Buddy T (16:11.972)
Well, the thing that strikes me is that, you know, the vast majority of UFO cases, there's talking about lights in the sky or an object moving, or I got a photograph. and it begins, you know, photograph is sort of the beginning or a blurry video and that's physical evidence of a sort. But these cases that particularly this what you're talking about, this had physical evidence in terms of, you know, this mark that you could examine and identify and measure things like that.
I would assume that physical evidence cases are pretty rare.
John Street (16:45.003)
Very rare. You know you you get a physical evidence case something like this. That's that's like a holy grail You know you got a lash on to it and hang with it and do what you can with it You don't want to let it go
Buddy T (16:57.336)
Yeah, so you actually saw and examined this unusual skin marking that she had.
John Street (17:03.534)
The only thing I saw was the pictures. I never met her in person, so the opportunity I got to see the pictures she sent me was she sent numerous pictures.
Buddy T (17:13.034)
And it was on an area of her body between her arm and her breast and chest area.
John Street (17:17.516)
Yeah, uh-huh. Yeah, right up, right around here on the shoulder. On her right shoulder.
Buddy T (17:23.586)
Well, I know, I know you guys at move fund are really impartial and very professional in your investigations. there any immediate steps in your protocol to rule out what we deem as normal causes?
John Street (17:38.862)
Yeah, we try to think of something. definitely like I was reading a case of similar cases where somebody mentioned maybe a hairdryer burn might have caused that. And of course that was shot down pretty quick. mean, who's going to burn herself with a hairdryer? know, that's good. I don't see why, you know, because these aren't burn marks. They're more or less raised marks that are kind of, I would say maybe a little swollen and not burnt. And a hairdryer would definitely burn your arm, burn the skin.
Buddy T (18:10.18)
Well, you know, a month or so ago, I was interviewing Dustin Eskelson, State Director over in Utah, and he had one of these physical mark cases. And that's kind of how I got on this theme of, you know, there might be some commonality in these marks and might be some commonality in the victims or the geo location, who knows.
often do you spot these kinds of patterns whether they're marks or something else that we hadn't discussed? How often do you see them appearing?
John Street (18:42.958)
Well, certain patterns I have, this is the only case I've had with a, like a symmetric pattern. But I have had a few cases in recent months where one woman is getting, or waking up with bruises on her body, different places at different times. I mean, she texts me several times a month saying, I've got new bruises. She's been to the doctor. There's nothing wrong, know, physically wrong with her. And she does not have any clue where these bruises are coming from. And some of our different shapes of bruises.
which you can obviously tell from the pictures. And her husband is a witch. Her husband sees him. He knows about him. And the most recent case I had was a young lady. had a getting burn marks. She had a burn mark on her left thumb. It was more or less look like an abrasion, small circle abrasion, almost like a scoop mark in which she got on her left thumb.
And it started healing up and then it started scamping over. And within a week, she had an identical one on her right thumb. And the exact same thing. They looked exactly the same. And then she had a, like a few days later, she had a burn on her middle left finger. Exact same spot, exact same shape. It doing the same thing. And I actually saw her two weeks ago and the finger was still healing, which I actually got to see in person.
She came to a meeting of ours with her husband and she's really terrified. Cuz she's a preschool teacher and she said she had been going to school with band-aids cuz she didn't want people to these burns on her hands cuz she didn't want people to the wrong ideas.
Buddy T (20:21.026)
Yeah. Well, I hear that term scoop mark quite a bit in these conversations. Can you, can you explain to listeners what, a scoop mark is or how you guys have come to demon as a scoop mark?
John Street (20:34.894)
What they call a scoop mark is it looks like somebody took a little baby spoon and takes a piece of your skin out. Sticks in your skin, it takes a little scoop of skin out and it leaves a scar and then indentation in your skin and a scar. And that's how I got the word scoop mark because it looks like you take a small baby spoon and scoop it.
Buddy T (20:54.778)
Are these types of scoop injuries, are they pretty common? Are you seeing a lot of that in these experiencer cases?
John Street (21:01.998)
Now personally, I haven't seen a whole lot of them, no, but I've heard of so, you know, I've seen a bunch of them documented that they're, that's one of the most common marks left in the abduction cases is a scoop mark. And that could be on any part of the body, know, various places, not just one particular place anytime.
Buddy T (21:22.734)
Well, have you had an opportunity to compare notes or to look through the database on these particular cases to see if there were others there with commonality that you're aware of?
John Street (21:34.638)
Yeah, there was several people with the mark on their shoulder, like she had on her shoulder. some had a month with a concentric circles and the lines going through them. There were several cases that I looked through over the internet. And they go back to like 2005, the first one I saw. And from 2005 to the case I have,
I've seen probably six or seven at least where the marks are almost exactly the same. And they're all different years and they happened anywhere from France. There were some reported in Britain and some reported in the US. Most were female. There were a couple males that had them. One guy had it on his abdomen. And it seems like the women, most of the women seem to have them on their shoulder or on the top of their breast. That's where it seems to most of them at.
Buddy T (22:29.122)
And these six or seven that you observed, shared similar geometry, they look similar and all that.
John Street (22:34.414)
I mean, they had the two concentric circles, and then they also had the lines going through them. The lines might not be exactly the same, going through the same place, or there's many lines, or some had more lines. if you just glance at them, you would think they're exact same thing. And they all explain the same thing, that it felt raised. It wasn't a burn. The skin was raised on that line of those marks.
Buddy T (22:54.134)
I'm sorry.
Buddy T (23:04.345)
going to put up a slide here and share with you is able to obtain that John. is I got Dustin Escholson told me about George Medich who was instrumental in making the database or designing the database coming up with a concept. And he said that George Medich was able to search through the database when I believe when Dustin had this case at the top right.
John Street (23:12.534)
Okay.
Buddy T (23:34.362)
the one here with the, you can see it's in black and white, but there's clearly some concentric circles there and some geometry to that mark. And then he said that Mr. Medich was able to search and find at least three other similar cases in your database. And I just wanted to put that up here for you. What goes through your mind when you see this similar symmetry?
John Street (23:44.088)
Yeah.
John Street (23:56.792)
Well, that's what really got my spark, my interest in the case made it even that more important to, you know, find answers because the actual witness photo there on top, that was hers in black and white. We also have a color picture of that. Then when he sent the similar cases one through three, that's what really blew my mind. said, man, now that is something. I mean, these marks are so similar to different people in different places at different times.
I mean, something is going on here. mean, like some of these cases like happening in France and Britain, how would anybody know about these marks, where they could try to duplicate them in itself and why would they? It's senseless. mean, this case I had, this woman is not looking for fame or anything and she just wants more or less, you know, try to find answers and...
It just blew my mind that there are so many of them out there and I've seen several more besides these three cases since I started investigating this case further.
Buddy T (24:58.84)
Yeah, it is mind blowing. I was doing some research for the show and I'm to see if I can share this with you. There was this one website that I came across in France that had just so many numerous examples that it almost be an injustice not to try to share that. think you see if I can actually share that now with you and the viewers here. This is a website.
Buddy T (25:31.044)
think this will share it. Okay, we'll see if that comes up. But it is a website in France and this is current live instance of it. And I've just had Google to translate it into English. But as we scroll through here, we begin to see some of these marks. Here's one with a, kinda looks like a ship's wheel, but a couple of small circle, larger concentric circle. And then here's.
John Street (25:53.698)
Yeah.
Buddy T (25:58.592)
one that's more along that classic lines. And there's another one, at least two concentric circles with horizontal vertical lines.
John Street (26:00.972)
Yeah.
Buddy T (26:10.5)
the
Buddy T (26:14.254)
the number of these things. Some of these cases are in 2013, 2015. You can see here this one is, you know, maybe partial artifact of what would have been the entire circles there potentially. And
John Street (26:27.084)
Yeah, mm-hmm. Yeah, that one looks like little bit bleeding a little bit also.
Buddy T (26:32.664)
Yeah, there are different varying degrees of intensity here. Some of them actually look like blotted on ink marks. Some of them look like burns and some of them look like scratches that actually, you know, penetrate the skin. But what's remarkable is just the overwhelming number. These things just go on and on of people who are experiencing this all over the world. It's just an incredible amount of
John Street (26:40.055)
Uh-huh.
Buddy T (27:01.314)
of similarity to these marks and, you know, of staggering numbers of people who've actually come forward and reported them. One can only imagine that there's, you know, tons of people who didn't come forward and report having an experience like
John Street (27:04.002)
Yeah.
John Street (27:15.81)
yeah, I would say so, definitely, Yeah, and like I said, when I got her pictures, I couldn't see them in person, but I actually did the metadata on her pictures and the data came back, the exact date that she said they happened. So that's why I believe their pictures were real.
Buddy T (27:34.254)
Yeah, that's great that MoveFund goes through some of the same investigative protocols that I'm familiar with, like verifying the metadata in a photo for its authenticity.
John Street (27:45.922)
Yeah, yeah. It just it blows my mind. There's just so many people at that mark out there. And like you mentioned, told me the other day, email me about Chuck Vallee, the famous UFO researcher. He actually, the other day, I found a video about him talking about these, these marks. And it was really interesting. Yeah, he was talking about the same thing, theory of a hairdryer possibly, but he kind of discounted it.
And he was very interested because there are so many of them. A lot of them happened in France where he's from.
Buddy T (28:18.074)
Yeah. When I actually was researching this and heard about Jacques Fillet and a hairdryer theory, it made me go look for my old hairdryer to see if I had one that was similar. yeah, well today they're, you know, they're different than they would have been in 2013 or 2005 back when this phenomenon started. uh, yeah, unfortunately I couldn't find my old hairdryer. So I don't, I don't know. didn't get to do any comparison.
John Street (28:27.496)
Hahaha
I haven't used one in a while.
John Street (28:40.333)
Yeah.
John Street (28:44.782)
You
Buddy T (28:47.662)
You know, one thing that I would, I think would be really interesting is if Mufon or whoever was the instant investigator in these cases had the opportunity to put scale to these photos, actually put like, you know, measuring instrument down to see, because some of these, now that I look at them in the context of these online photos, some of them look to be about the size of a quarter or half dollars and others are,
John Street (29:04.908)
yeah.
Buddy T (29:14.458)
Mimicking maybe the size of a baseball or softball, you know, they're in quite large
John Street (29:17.518)
Yeah, some of them look a little much larger. Mm-hmm. And I, you know, like I say, talk about a hairdryer, I just, I don't think there's that many different sizes of hairdryers out there. I mean, you know, they're all basically about the same size.
Buddy T (29:27.576)
No. Yeah.
Yeah, the the other interesting part would be to see if you know, and and we'll take this on as part of our investigation. We'll consult with medical professionals to see if this matches any known, you know, medical surgical dermatological instrument. But I'm not aware of anything like that. Of course, I'm not a doctor either. But did you guys do any looking into the more mundane causes that it could be like that?
John Street (29:58.254)
Well, the only thing I found that it could, know, that close to that is the marking they put on the skin for a radiation treatment. I've seen them, they're similar to that, but they're more or less just one circle with a crosshair in the middle to pinpoint radiation therapy.
Buddy T (30:07.207)
that's interesting.
Buddy T (30:15.842)
I assume that's like an inked on or some other type of marking.
John Street (30:18.624)
Yeah, exactly.
Buddy T (30:23.29)
Well, it's certainly an amazing phenomena that's going on with a lot of similarity. So do you see any emotional patterns in the witnesses, experiencers that you've talked to that have had these kind of either scoop marks or physical marks left? And I only assume it's pretty dramatic.
John Street (30:23.48)
So it.
John Street (30:41.998)
it is, yeah. The one with the marks on her fingers, this recent case I was doing, she is very fearful because she doesn't know how they happened. Because she went to the doctor and had a culture done, skin culture done and everything. She thought there were bug bites and the doctor couldn't find anything. He did the culture and there wasn't any type of bacterial or anything in there. He he couldn't explain it. He had no idea.
Buddy T (31:08.462)
Yeah. So from your own experience, not MUFON's official position, but what do you think these marks are? What do you think they suggest?
John Street (31:17.774)
That's a good question. I gosh, it could be almost anything. I have thought about how they explain Atlantis, the concentric circles and the lines being the canals going through the circles to the main part of the city. could be, you know, resemble something like that. You know, if you're, because, you know, if you believe in Atlantis stuff like that, you know, and if they were an alien civilization or a civilization that
that are humans that were so far advanced, could do, you know, maybe try and travel and come back. That's one of my thoughts, that's a possibility. I mean, I don't have any closer on how to kind of improve or anything. He just won my ideas. And another idea is just maybe it is just kind of like a target for radiation. Maybe they'd mark it where they were, to mark, you know, pinpoint, you know, a sample they want to take out.
from the inside.
Buddy T (32:15.546)
I had not made correlation to Atlantis. That's a very interesting thought because I am familiar with the size, shape, description of Atlantis and the concentric circles. So that's really interesting.
John Street (32:29.676)
Yeah, you've seen pictures of it. It's got the lines, the canals going through it, the crossing, where the boats come in and out of the water rings outside. So.
Buddy T (32:37.944)
Yeah, our producer on the show here, Matt, is a big fan of Atlantis theory. So I'll have to get his input on this, see what he thinks. But that's very interesting. On the radiation side of things, have any of these victims that you're aware of experienced or shown any of the signs of radiation poisoning and after effects?
John Street (32:58.286)
Oh, no, whatsoever. No, no. Because like I said, a couple of them I know that have went to the doctor and they just couldn't find anything wrong with them or they weren't sick their stomach. just there wasn't any pain involved or anything. And they had just dumbfounded how these things came about. They don't have a clue on what they They want answers.
Buddy T (33:20.036)
So if someone were to wake up and see that they had this mark forming on their body, what would be your advice to them, John? What would you say?
John Street (33:29.134)
I would first thing I would do would get on move on.com their main their main site. And they have a they have a report a siding and they also have an experience or questionnaire. That's for people who believe they've been abducted or had contact with aliens. And you can fill out the experience or questionnaire. And so as soon as you submit that it'll get go to the headquarters and they will get right on it. And I'd say within a day or two, somebody will be contacting you about your experience.
Buddy T (33:59.512)
Is there any advice of what people shouldn't do? mean, obviously, we'd want them to photograph and preserve the evidence as freshly as they could in time to when it appeared. But is there anything they shouldn't do?
John Street (34:11.246)
One thing I wouldn't do, but personally I would stay off social media first. To me that's, you know, I wouldn't be posting that stuff out there and everybody would look at it and see and everything. A lot of people want their three minutes of fame and post stuff like that on social media and everything starts getting distorted from then on. You don't know what's real and what's not. Once you put something on social media, first thing people are going to start thinking is you're doing this for attention.
Buddy T (34:17.498)
That's good.
Buddy T (34:30.234)
Yeah, absolutely.
Buddy T (34:37.742)
Yeah, there'll be a number of trolls and that whole segment out there that will automatically make value judgments based on sharing it on social media. I couldn't agree more. I think that's a great move is to keep it off of social media if possible.
John Street (34:46.018)
Yeah, yeah.
John Street (34:53.774)
I mean, there could be a time and a place for that sure when you get some answers and things are getting investigated. Yeah, but not when it first happens. And you gotta make sure when it happens, document everything, times, locations, anything strange going on, anything out of the ordinary that's happened when that mark appeared before and after. And of course, pay attention to.
what could happen in the next couple of days. You never know, you might have a mark somewhere where you can't see it. If you've got a significant other, somebody that can look for you, have them look. If one mark appears, there might be another one.
Buddy T (35:29.368)
Yeah, full body inspection wouldn't be a bad idea, would it?
John Street (35:32.814)
Definitely would, know, if you're married, a wife and a girlfriend or husband that you're comfortable doing that with, yeah, sure.
Buddy T (35:40.312)
Yeah, well, the stigma surrounding these types of encounters or sightings and even it seems to be lessening a little with things like the release of the age of disclosure and, you know, government officials who are coming forward and talking pretty openly about some of these things.
I am sure that there are still a number of people who are afraid to come forward who have experienced significant things. What would your advice be or a message to them if they're afraid to come forward?
John Street (36:10.946)
Well, if you come to the MUFON, we investigate, completely anonymous. We don't make anything public. Everything is completely private. The only thing, place your name will be is in MUFON's database, which is not made public. The only people available is MUFON field investigators.
The only time anything is made public is if you want to make public, because your privacy is the most important thing to us, anonymity. a lot of people don't want their name out there associated with this kind of stuff. Don't be afraid, because we're not going to tell anybody. We're not going to post it. We're not going to make money off of it. We're not going to sell it. It's your story. What's just happened to you, and it's private.
Buddy T (36:48.932)
Well.
Buddy T (36:55.098)
I can attest to what you're saying is true because I've made effort to try to get some more details prior to us talking about this story. And I learned that it was more than just a slogan that these cases are very private and MUFON does respect the individual's privacy, which is great. I don't want to lump myself as a journalist because I'm certainly not. I'm just presenting strange stories.
John Street (37:23.383)
Yeah.
Buddy T (37:24.954)
the you know it's my job to kind of dig and to try to find out as much detail as I can about what we're presenting here but this was this was kind of tough I got stopped pretty quick on that
John Street (37:39.15)
Yeah, now there's been cases where I've had witnesses or experiences where I'll mention their story and you know, not details, but I'll mention a strange story and I've had someone say, well, I'd like to do an interview with them talk to them. said, well, the only thing I can do is give that witness your contact information and if they want to get hold of you from there on, it's up to them.
I can't be a go-between guy. I can give the witness the information and whatever they do with it, except I leave it in their hands.
Buddy T (38:11.086)
Yeah. So John, could you share with the listeners your maybe your biggest takeaway from years of ERT and field investigative work? Are there any takeaways that you want to share?
John Street (38:23.502)
Yeah, I tell you, the feeling that you might have helped somebody, you know, that's not big. I love it, you know, because people thank you and the first time someone has shared their story like that, something so personal and so scary to them, it makes you feel really good knowing that you're listening, you're not judging them and let them know that you're not going to judge them. That's the main thing, you know, that you don't want people thinking that, well, they're going to think I'm crazy. No, we don't think you're crazy.
That's part of our job. We're open minded. We listen to everybody and take every story, whatever it is, seriously. Because we don't know what you've been through. We don't have a clue. We need to document it and have it on record, what happened to you. then from there on, we can use your case to compare to other cases and maybe find some similarities, maybe figure out what's going on.
Buddy T (39:14.97)
Yeah, that really resonates with me. It kind of hits home at people to ask me over the years, like, why did you choose to be a policeman? I was for maybe a quarter of a century. But I can think back on the victims that I helped in some specific way. Maybe they weren't all as dramatic as saving somebody's life. But just giving somebody an outlet, a listening ear sometimes is a really rewarding experience.
John Street (39:39.616)
it definitely is. Definitely is.
Buddy T (39:44.29)
So MUFON started out, seemed like to me, this is just from, I am not a member of MUFON, although I certainly am interested. It seems to me that MUFON started out as sort of a nuts and bolts investigative type agency, where there had been craft and there had been sightings and all that. And now MUFON has kind of expanded its mission a little bit into this experience of resource team.
and it is beginning to take in what I would call the other parts of the phenomenon. The nuts and bolts craft is one thing, but the other paranormal implications of this phenomenon are beginning to manifest themselves more and more. It seems like there is a link between some of this, what I would...
called classic paranormal activity. And you know, what we've always thought of as UFO phenomena. It seems to be like maybe these things are linked a little bit.
John Street (40:51.052)
Yeah, I kind of think the same thing myself. mean, move on. They won't investigate paranormal, but in some cases, it kind of leans towards a paranormal cause of some things. And you've got to take that into consideration.
Because sometimes I do think, you know, there's a thin line between paranormal and alien, know, abductions and stuff like, know, alien visitation. Now, like some of the stories are similar. What happens to paranormal? What happens when aliens visit? Now, you know, it's really hard to determine whether it's something that should be, you know, handled by, you know, a ghost investigation group or MUFON. But they're so similar, I mean, you got to start somewhere. Somebody's got to look into it and try to figure out.
the best answer for that, whatever's happening. So you gotta do both of them really. You gotta have the open mouth, it could be paranormal.
Buddy T (41:44.986)
Yeah. You know, I think some of these paranormal efforts have been really just efforts to scare us and entertain us a little bit while some of the other paranormal investigative efforts, when it comes to mine is like Trey Hudson and his metal project. That seems to be legitimate scientific rigorous investigation of a paranormal activity, but there are others that are not. So, you know, uh, I think
I initially have steered away from, you know, pursuing any of these paranormal type investigations, sticking more towards the UFO side of things. But I'm beginning to see that maybe, maybe that's not the best approach. Maybe that all the evidence should be considered.
John Street (42:29.886)
yeah, that's like paranormal and time travel, different dimensions. There's just so much out there of what, you know, it could be the cause of all of it. We just don't know.
Buddy T (42:40.858)
Yeah, I guess the, in my mind, there's a totality of circumstances surrounding this phenomenon where it's past believable. You know, it's past, it's beyond a reasonable doubt for me anyway that, you know, the phenomena is real. Um, I just, uh, I think the questions now are who is it? What's the intent, you know, where, where are they coming from? You know, what's the long-term ramifications of this exposure?
And is there any way we can control this? I'm not sure there is.
John Street (43:16.012)
Yeah, I agree. I don't think there's any way we can control it. And the biggest question I always get, if there are aliens, do you think they're here to hurt us? I tell people, no, I think they're benevolent. I think they're here to help us. think, you you think about it, if they were here to hurt us, I truly believe they would done it a long time ago. Why are you going you
start a fight with somebody and say, I'm gonna wait for you here, you got a knife, go home and get your gun and I'll wait for you, then I'll start a fight. You don't do that. mean, you're not gonna wait for us to progress so much militarily and stuff like that. Well, we could put up a fight. You're gonna do something like that you had done a long time ago.
Buddy T (43:56.174)
Yeah, I think that is generally the way that I feel about it as well is that there is some benevolent intent here or at least some indifference to if they're just here observing us as a species, they're at least indifferent about it. But I think that could change with our advances and you know.
humanity developing nuclear weapons and weapons of mass destruction and the phenomena seems to be clustered with a great interest around those things. And so, you know, it's one thing to go to the zoo and observe the tiger when it's on the other side of the glass, but when it starts to encroach out the glass, become, you feel a little different about it.
John Street (44:36.247)
Say hey.
Exactly, yeah. Definitely.
Buddy T (44:42.636)
Or in this case, it might be more akin to observing ants at a picnic. They're all fond of, you know, we don't we don't care about them until they start to get on our, you know, on our sandwich. Well, John, I have had a great time with this interview. I would encourage people who have experiences to reach out to their move on chapter. I have seen nothing but professionals in my interaction with move on.
John Street (44:52.469)
Exactly.
Buddy T (45:10.938)
And I would encourage our listeners, if you want to hear more about the future of these types of experiencer investigations, to like and subscribe to join us here on Beyond the Map. We're on YouTube, podcasts on Spotify and everywhere else that podcasts are available. So become a member and like us and join. John, I'd like to ask you to come back and share with us any other thing that you see that's interesting. We'd love to have you back again as a guest.
John Street (45:38.414)
and I would love to come back. Hopefully I can just keep finding interesting stuff, maybe hopefully find some answers.
Buddy T (45:43.758)
Yeah, I think there's probably an opportunity to have you and Dustin and some of MUFON's top professionals on and have discussions about some of these things. So maybe that opportunity will avail itself as well.
John Street (45:56.686)
Oh yeah, it'd be fun. Yeah. Yeah. Dustin's a good guy. Very intelligent. He knows what he's talking about.
Buddy T (46:02.97)
Folks, this is John Streak, Assistant Director of the MUFON Chapter in Indiana. been our guest. John, thank you very much.
John Street (46:10.658)
Thank you guys very much.